How Solar Companies Will Monetize Energy in the Next Decade with Enphase's Senior Vice President

Herve (00:00) All right. Hi, Jayant. Welcome to the podcast about What Solar Installers Need to Know. Jayant (00:05) Thank you. Thanks for inviting me, Herve. Herve (00:07) Before that, you also worked at Intel where you were responsible for the wireless division and you have 25 years of engineering and product and executive leadership. You also have an MBA from the Wharton School but also a big background in semiconductors which is very helpful these days. Jayant (00:24) Thanks a lot. Thanks for the intro and thanks for inviting me once again. Yes. Yeah. Herve (00:28) All right. Can you tell the audience what you do? What is that big digital business unit? Jayant (00:34) Absolutely, we started digital business unit at Enphase approximately, I would say, six years ago with the concept of that, that we realized that inside the solar industry, there will be a transformation that is required to reduce the hidden cost or the cost which are needed to reduce the cycle time from concept of buying a product to installing it, as well as ensuring that there is a complete visibility and complete predictability is maintained in this entire value chain. So as you know that as a company, we provide microinverters, batteries, EV chargers or so, and these products get used in our installer or our partner community once they are ready to install a product. So their entire operations or the engineering team that works on it. However, there is a big chunk of the workforce within these installer community who works on sales, marketing, platform, talking to the customers, making sure the designs are correct, making sure the permits are correct, and making sure that everything that is basically being sold is actually getting installed. So complete an end-to-end journey. So from that perspective, we thought maybe we'd create a platform which basically solves some of the difficult problems that are needed all the way from financing to leads to design to the permits and then actually getting installed into a customer's house. So from that perspective, we started and we actually in that process acquired a few companies. We also did a lot of organic work and we are continuing to do that work. And that was a concept of the digital business unit, which we are today. As of today, I have multiple businesses as part of this organization. And that includes businesses such as EV charging that we acquired. We have a business called Solar Graph, which is part of my organization. We have all the lead generation platforms that we have it on our website, as well as on our some partner websites and all the initiatives that we take with our inside sales as well as with our partners. So that is part of my team. Also, I run the e-commerce channel for Enphase on a worldwide basis, which basically we are able to really provide products which are hard to find, difficult to find, companion products, as well as ensuring that they get delivered in time to our installer partners also. So time to take care of all the problem areas they may have had, our partners and this business unit is addressing several of these problems. So in that vision, this is what is formed and we are still continuing to learn and evolving. And we will make a lot more changes and lot more inroads into several new areas in the coming years. Herve (03:11) So if I understand correctly, the core of Enphase is to build and manufacture micro inverters. You add them to different products in batteries and so on. But then to get the sales, to sell more, you help installers with all the soft, the sales and the marketing and the Legion, everything that goes ahead of that so that you can sell more micro inverters. Jayant (03:33) That's majority of it. And in addition, also, we have added things such as once you have the asset and once you have the installation done, can you make that asset more valuable from the perspective that ability to do the system expansion or ability to ensuring that VPP-based capitalization that is available into our app? Or ability for someone else as a grid operator to get some value out of these assets or so. So several of these kind of elements also we added and monetized and added value for both our customers as well as our partners and the industry as well. Herve (04:08) All right, so that digital aspect really encompasses a lot of pieces. Before it's installed, once it's installed, after it's installed, a lot of different IT projects I'm sure going on. Maybe what is one underrated understanding of the digital capabilities of Enphase? Jayant (04:23) I think several things I would say, first of all, Enphase manages the entire ecosystem from a customer's lifetime journey perspective, in the sense that we are managing 25 years worth of data for the homeowner to ensure that there are no problems into their systems, as well as ensuring that their user experience, because once the system is installed and pretty much the installation, as well as the product providers or the service providers, are kind of out of picture. The only interaction a homeowner has with us is via this app. And that app actually is need to take care of their system's health as well as report any kind of problems and do a performance on that system for the next 25 years. So this requires a lot of data management. This requires a lot of service integrations. This requires a continuous monitoring. There are a lot of things that goes behind the scene in the journey for the next 25 years. So that is one of the hidden aspects, which if you are talking about a 5 million sites in the end phase portfolio, managing that entire data and maintaining and managing that entire user experience from a connected system perspective is not a trivial job. And that's what we commit when we provide our hardware, we commit that I'm going to take care of you, not just today, for the next 25 years. Herve (05:47) And for us, I mean, the company I'm leading, Sunvoy we have a lot of APIs to different inverter manufacturers. And that's the moment where I say thank you to you to have an amazing team that we're constantly in contact with. But also, of all the inverter manufacturers we work with, I can openly tell you that Enphase is one of the better API providers. And so you really have a very solid organization that you're leading. So I want to thank you for that. Jayant (06:10) Thank you. That's one of the things which I've been involved in the past and that's we are built on top of it. And we are going to going through a lot of maturity in that space and a lot of new executives have also been added and they are taking it to the next level now. Herve (06:24) Well, talking about maybe the future. What are some trends that you see that maybe installers should know about? What's going on in the digital world of installers? Do you have some advice to give? Jayant (06:35) No, absolutely. I mean, there are a lot of a lot going on as we understand, especially in the U.S. There's nothing is hidden, lot of changes are happening. The way business was happening in the past or it will happen in the future from a demand creation perspective, a lot of things which are disappearing. But what we learn, especially, which is outside of the regular OBB impact are some kind of other incentives that could potentially not be available. But two or three trends that I see, one trend is the transition of California from NEM2 to NEM3 over the last two years. Other than the transition that we see that, for example, in Netherlands, things, the NEM incentive itself, was unlike in the US, in Netherlands, it is not grandfathered, the system. That means sometime in 26, the entire NEM benefit will go away. There are a lot of dynamic tariffs are emerging where people have different tariffs available at different point of time and based on their consumption and sometimes they get paid even to consume. There is a huge energy need which is emerging because of the AI. As a result of it, some of the utilities, those who will and if heavily relying upon energy to be available from the home base might focus more for this AI data centers to provide the energy where they will make a little bit more money. As a result of it, that whole energy needs to be taken care by the owner itself or so. In the sense that there are quite a few, lots of things are happening in the tariff space, in the policy space, in the way the data is being consumed and that is creating an impact on the day-to-day life of the owners itself. Everything will have an impact. on the business that we do. And in order to understand the trend will emerge that home energy management, the entire home energy management becomes a lot more important in the sense that every kilowatt hour that you produce or you consume or you export is not equal to the same dollar amount. It is different. It is when you import, when you export, when you consume, it has a different dollar value associated with it. It may be as cheap as seven cents and sometimes as high as three dollars. So there is an opportunity as well as understanding in the market that is required that how to manage it. That means your storage, your production, your consumption, every aspect of this requires a complete system management. If you don't do it, you might be sitting, you might be giving away money or you will not be benefiting some of these kind of aspects. So that awareness, which is there for, let's say for a stock market or for any kind of trading markets or so, that will evolve significantly for the energy market with these changes which are coming into effect, which is policy, which is tariff, which is dynamic tariff, or which is basically emergence of the new consumption area with the EV especially. And we are seeing countries like Norway or Sweden, 90% of the new cars are being sold are the electric vehicles. and they are creating an imbalance in the entire industry for them to manage how the energy will be used. And the same imbalance could be created potentially with the AI and data centers in the US and other countries also. And so we need to be ready and that entire energy ecosystem will be changing. So as a result, I mean, there are a lot more things that I'm saying, but at the same time, effect of how to do effective home energy management system. And that will be the answer for all these problems. Herve (10:08) So solar installing is a step away from... thinking just about solar and installing solar, which is it's in the name solar installer, and be more thinking about home energy or a consultant that helps a homeowner in the energy transition, generate their own power and manage it, right? So it lets from like, think about selling, marketing selling solar panels to more like how do you provide like an energy management system for homeowners, I guess. Jayant (10:37) Absolutely. I mean, as you know, I one of the key element, for example, the emerging element is a bi-directional car. I mean, that is going to become a reality. I mean, all the EVs which are in the market today will go in that particular direction. Where you have, so imagine your home has solar production, but now you have a home stationary battery, you have home mobile battery, and that battery at home mobile could be available to you in a very large capacity, 100 kilowatt hour, could be available to be dumped into the grid, or could be available to dump into the home based on the need or so. And managing all these assets at an appropriate time with an appropriate AI-based engine or some kind of an intelligent engine which understand the user behavior also. Because a stationary battery and solar is only looking at the tariff. But now all of a sudden a user behavior also comes into the picture. When do you come home? Are you on vacation? What time you are plugging in? When exactly you go to the office? How many miles do you drive? That has a huge impact of this energy economics completely. And that will be an integral part of this energy management system. So, I mean, the problem is going to become complex and complex and the companies, those who are able to understand this aspect will be the successful companies to make sure that we are able to provide the same services to the consumer. What we will do in a simple solar scenario to a complex solar plus storage plus EVSC plus hot water heater plus heat pump kind of scenario. Herve (12:15) Now, if you're a solar installation today, you still need to get, know, sell your services and your products. You need to have quotes and the homeowner wants to know exactly how all of this is gonna work, right? How much is it be saving? Now, if you add future, in the future, cars to the mix and all that, that price variation is massive. So how do you expect a solar installer to provide a quote with some... Estimate I know you guys bought a solo graph. So, know also manage and a proposal tool. So how do you How do you manage all that complexity or do you just put like a very very big? Asterix next to every number and say like well this may change. How do you write that trust for a homeowner to sign on to somewhat of an estimate about what that energy system is going to do for them. Jayant (13:06) So absolutely, very good question actually, in the sense that as you know that solar sales has been traditionally more like consultative sales. It is not something a transactional based sale that you put a sticker price for a small, medium, large. It is basically designed for that particular home, that particular user behavior, that particular user's needs, and that particular user's outlook that how long are you going to stay in this home? Do you have roofing? There are lot of consulting aspects that are included. If the concept is very similar, I mean that gets extended with a battery that are you a person who wants to believe in in self-consumption? Are you a person who wants to believe in savings? Are you a person that give me an insurance that I want to have a backup for my system? or you are a person that you will potentially buy a car, which is EV and 100 kilowatt hour, and you will drive 40 miles per hour. All these things we have incorporated into our tool. And in fact, we are absorbing that complexity to create a simple way for a salesperson to have a conversation with the same user, where earlier they were simply talking about the ROI in terms of five years payback, eight years payback, can they still continue to talk in the same terms by still absorbing this complexity, having a consultative conversation with them? So that's how we are evolving the tool. And I mean, I've done it for, for the country like France or Netherlands or, or Illinois or California or, Texas. Everything has a slightly nuances associated with that. And that's what is getting absorbed to remain in that consultative approach to create a tailor-made solution from a salesperson into the home by absorbing this complexity at a simplest level into the tool itself. Herve (15:02) Yeah, absorbent complexity in a simple manner like that. That is hard to do. I want to go back to the three trends that you mentioned. So you mentioned NEM going away. One was you mentioned dynamic pricing or even negative pricing. I know in France and Belgium you already have negative prices. Maybe for the US people not knowing what that means. But once you produce clean energy, your home will produce power. But there's already enough power on the grid, the grid's gonna charge you to the utility gonna charge you to put that solar power on the grid. So what they ask for is that if there is too much power, you receive a signal from the grid like prices are negative and then you should need to shut down the solar or absorb the solar in consumption or pushing your battery or EV charging, something like that. And then you also mentioned utilities and AI data center where it's more like a home energy management systems. So those are three important trends. You also mentioned the imbalance of cars in Norway. But if they are an imbalance, they just consume power. But in the future, those cars can also be used on the grid. Is that imbalance just gonna go away and become a part of the grid? Jayant (16:10) No, that's definitely, especially in the cars, this imbalance, especially as more and more EVs are coming, sometimes this infrastructure that is present, it may be different for a country and a state level or a neighborhood level that you're, let's say you have a transformer and there are 20 homes associated with this. Today, it might be one or two EVs are being charged and tomorrow there may be 15 EVs are being charged and they are being charged at the same time. Is that infrastructure is scalable and done from the perspective of that that can scale to that level. So the answer is of course no in several of these cases. The things which were designed 100 years ago or 50 years ago, they may not be valid today. And this is going to create an imbalance situation across the countries or so. Some people might address it by creating an incentive plan, or some people might address it by creating a punitive plan. If you consume right now, I will give you money, or your money is like you can charge it at $0.01 per kilowatt hour. Or a punitive plan is approximately, if you charge at this very moment, you will have to pay $3. Or other way around is like, OK, I know that you don't know when you want to charge or that give the control back to me. Me means there is another platform which is working behind the scene, which is ensuring that, okay, if I am having an imbalance kind of situation, then I will ensure that you do not get whatever kilowatt hours that you need. Actually, at that time, your car may not charge at 32 ampere, it may charge at 6 ampere, or those kind of things, signals which will be coming from the utility back into your assets or your DERs kind of things. We have created these things actually, all of our microinverters, they respond to our gateways. All our batteries, they work with the gateways. Our EV chargers also can respond to an external source or an internal source. So we have future-proofed it from the perspective that the asset should be able to respond in a very short span of time, less than two seconds when it's sometimes unneeded, less than 48 milliseconds when it's sometimes kind of needed, and reverse the direction. Like a solar panel should not produce at certain point of time if you are getting paid to consume or your EV charger should change direction if you lose power within 48 milliseconds so that to ensure that your house is never out of power in that sense because somebody decided to cut it down because of the imbalance kind of situations or so. So ultimately, it will depends on there will be a lot more requirement I foresee that will come into the assets that go into the home to ensure these kind of behaviors are mandatory behavior. That they should be governed by an external source or taking care of it internally, as well as making sure that they meet the broad requirement because from home one to home two or home three they do not create any problem for the grid. So I can see several of these countries are solving this problem differently. I mean, Netherlands is solving it differently. Nordic region may be solving it differently. Eventually the problem will come to California and to America as well. And they will have to, but solution lies into you choosing an asset. And that's what we are thinking that ultimately the solution will lie if your asset is having that ability or not. And the companies, those who are able to execute and deliver to that kind of hardware, they will be able to win in longer term. Herve (19:38) Nice, nice. And so for the utilities, the stick or the carrot to adapt to it. We also spoke about like a complexity and trying to have a simple tool, which brings me to like the balance between the tech and the field realities. So how do you balance the need for an advanced digital tool with the practical realities that solar installers face on the ground by literally like they are in the field? How do you balance that complexity? Jayant (20:04) So, I mean, we are engineering company primarily and be it a hardware engineering or a software engineering or so, and we believe in the simplicity at the end of the day. I mean, the good news is there are lot more tools are available now, especially with the GenAI, and a lot more data that can be effectively used in the tool. The things that we are doing to create the simplicity, I mean, there will be a GenAI bots into our tools across the board, right? You want to do, like today is as simple as this, you give an address, the design is done for you. But what if you interact with somebody and say that, okay, like move these two panels from here to here, or what if my consumption goes up? So as if you're talking to a person, to a salesperson, can you talk in the same way to a tool or your type or interact, and it should be able to adopt to the real time immediately. So that's the kind of thing, and they should be able to give you a visual inspection, as well as you will be able to get your numbers, your finance, everything should be done in your fingertips or so, it's very important for us because as a company, we believe in quality and customer support, which goes all the way across the product, whether it's a hardware or software in that sense. So we ensure that we use the technology to create simplicity, to create easier and less complex solutions for our customers in that sense. So we use all kinds of the latest and greatest technology into all of our products across the board, but simplicity has to be maintained. Herve (21:41) That's easily said. I don't know any other trouble you go through to make that a reality. We spoke about virtual power plants a little bit and grid edge technology. For a solar installer, what also matters is that in the end there is a revenue stream. So do you see any advances in software or services that Enphase provides that in the end creates a new revenue stream, like one way or another for installers? Jayant (22:06) Absolutely. I mean, we definitely see this, that the assets should be able to monetize through the life. And because there is a lot more value into it, especially with the lot of advanced software that is available. We have enabled it. Today, we are participating into several VPP programs, as you know. And we have created an infrastructure of it, where the monetization could be done by the asset owner. It could be a TPO in some cases, it could be a homeowner in some cases, or some kind of fleet owner in that particular case. For installers to monetize it, they need to be more participative in the sense of how to own that asset at some point of time, and effectively that will create some kind of a value stream. But as far as our plan is concerned, yes, our asset should be monetizable for the owners and to the maximum of it. And it should benefit the grid, it should benefit the fleet owner, or eventually make it simpler for an installer to sell. If you are able to show, for example, in Solargraph kind of a tool, then by using a VPP platform, how much savings potentially on an annual basis asset owner will be able to get, that may result into effectively a different pricing discussion between the installers and the homeowners. That, okay, there is a value added incentives also available. As a result, the sale could become much easier also. So those kinds of things we are doing from the installer perspective, the monetization of that asset may be difficult till the asset is owned by the installer. Herve (23:47) I want to speak again about what you mentioned there, like the quote could include some VPP valuation, but VPPs now are usually like driven by some utilities, get programs out, but it's hard to know if the program is going to exist in 2,5, 10 years from now. Things change so much. Now once you install solar, that's done for like 15 to 20 years. So it must be really hard to portray trust to a homeowner that it's a good investment, yet there are so many variables that will change over time. Like many years ago, we made a proposal to a homeowner and just, and they were already amazed. How can you predict what it's gonna produce? Like, well, we have some models, the weather, we know what it is, and with the radiation and the inclination of your roof, we can predict what it's gonna produce. That alone was already like, amazing, when I think back, mean, that is like the super, super simple version of what we are talking now in the proposal tool. So how do you create that trust that a homeowner can sign on the other line for 15, 20 years when, and phase you are participating in different programs or it is, but they don't know themselves. So how many assumptions do you have? Jayant (25:01) That's a good question. That's a very good question actually. there are programs which are published programs run by larger utilities and larger platforms in the sense. And they've been running now, they have a history of the last four or five years. So there is a little bit of credibility is associated with them. And then there is a potential for the way I foresee actually is if we are able to predictably say that, OK, let's say I give you 2,000 sites, and these sites can produce these many megawatt hours in a certain time period, if that predictability at a data level is indeed maintained over one year or so, I think the value that is recognized by the VPP owner or the person who's owning they will also believe a lot more and that's how they will, if they see the benefit, it will stabilize. So ultimately, I think over the last 2 to 3 years, assets, the storage assets especially, the number of them have been deployed significantly as well as their predictability is also increasing. Two to three years ago, the penetration rate or hit rate was very, very low. For example, 10-15 percent but in states now California like it's 90% plus, and that same thing will happen in the other states also as we make I there are a lot of lot of tariff rules which are coming into the effect and that will require for somebody to own a solar plus storage they will be integral part of every system or so, so the things were different two years ago, I would say because the the amount of energy is the amount of predictability that was available and was very, very limited. But as we are making significant progress over the last two years, the predictability is increasing significantly. And that point needs to be communicated. When a consultative sales is happening that indeed, I can show you in our app, for example, indeed this particular homeowner actually benefited this much money over the last two years because of these reasons, because of NEM3. And we have made it like in our app, for example, in Enphase app, you can look at the lifetime kilowatt hour produced, consumed, as well as the dollar. That you can look at it exactly how much money you indeed made in this time period. How much money today you made because you used the... This is not because of any VPP per se, it's because the simple tariff kind of thing. And that thing can be extended on the VPP side also. So more and more visibility as other manufacturers also are able to provide like Enphase, that will create more credibility amongst the homeowners and that will give more credibility to the people who are using BPP as well as the installers will be able to convince to the homeowners also. Saying that yes, this is indeed the case, it's been run the program, here is an evidence of it and that's why it will continue to be that way for the next five years also or 10 years or so. Herve (27:59) Yeah, and actually that uncertainty about what's gonna happen in the future, nobody has a crystal ball, maybe can actually be used by the solar industries. When you look at it, everybody that's connected to the grid, means pretty much everybody listening to this, we all have a contract with your utility, but the contract is not a fixed price contract. It's like you sign, you get electricity, but that price may change tomorrow or next year. There is of course some rules around that. cannot just change the price nearly really, but at the same time, we all have contracts with utility and they can change the price on us for eternity. We will be using electricity for forever. So maybe in the proposal tool, it's like here is a solar cost to install but here is like the actual price of your kilowatt hours and then you compare that to like an unknown like the utility may change their price in the future it's usually only going to go up it doesn't really go down usually so So maybe that is part of the proposal is like you have a known solar costs. This is what you know, kind of an insurance plan. Like this is your, this is what you can buy into and God knows what's going to happen with utility. And then the VPP that's more revenue. That's kind of all gravy on top, the cherry on the cake. But if we can focus on like stability, like this is what we know compared to the utility. We don't know what's going to happen. So that's. Jayant (29:18) You are absolutely right. Absolutely right. Somehow in the past, from the last seven, eight years, the industry got into the trend of basically selling the solar based on the return on investment or number of years of payback. Yeah. That was the main, main point. Like, okay, in five to five years, the system is for free. That was the concept or so. But the big concept that got ignored is the energy that you are putting on your rooftop, is actually going to cost you only 7, 8 cents per kilowatt hour, or maybe 18 cents with a battery or something like that. What says you are actually paying 40 cents or 45 cents per kilowatt hour to a utility. Effectively, it's a CD which had 13, 14% of return actually associated with that. So, if that concept of selling, I mean, available in the tool, for example, any of our tool, maybe in a version of the competitive also available. But the industry has to evolve to make sure that that messaging goes across very clearly and resonates with the homeowner. Instead of basically purely looking at, after five years, things are for free. And what says that you are actually buying your energy at a much more lower predictable cost. This 7 cents per kilowatt hour is going to stay for next 25 years or so. I mean, it is not going to change. What says there could be lots of uncertainty around you. which may change these things dramatically. So I think that is one of the selling techniques. Same thing applies, for example, people look at like a battery only by the capacity, by the kilowatt hour, how much kilowatt hours, they don't look at it from a usable capacity. Let's say if I can run more cycles with my batteries, I might be able to create a lot more value for that battery because of that reason that I can arbitrate it based on the tariff also. So yes, these are consultative complex sales, but needs to be absorbed inside the tool. That's what we are doing to make sure the narrative is not purely against the paybacks or so, which was traditionally versus actually you're actually increasing your your dollar per kilowatt hour significantly, as well as giving you an ability to arbitrate and trade in the market to produce more value out of your assets. So that narrative we are trying to think that how can it be captured through the tools itself. Herve (31:38) All right. Thank you for that answer. What about AI? So we already spoke a little bit about AI and like I run Sunvoy, it's a software company and so I don't have investors means that I don't have any pressure like to build anything in AI that just to say that we have AI. I have pressure more and more for my clients. So installers is like, what are you doing with AI? How can you just simplify my life one way or another? So what is Enphase? You spoke about having an AI bot. Do you have other ideas about what AI could mean in the end phase platform but eventually what could it mean for sole installers. Jayant (32:14) Absolutely. AI is a generic term basically, I mean, applies to several, walks of life. It is impacting us in all possible ways. At a corporate level, mean, one is definitely improving our own products. Definitely we are extensively using AI, which may mean our home energy management system using a predictive forecasting, predictive for solar production, predictive. forecasting for home consumption and making a decision that should you charge the battery, should you discharge the battery, should you charge your car, should you, for a bi-directional case, should you discharge your car, should I produce my solar at a full capacity, should I produce my solar at a different capacity. There are a bunch of these kinds of decisions based on the predictive nature of, pure predictive nature of what will happen in the future and you learn it from the data. So that is one of the core aspect of it. Definitely in Solograf Tool, we recognize images, we recognize obstacles, we recognize trees, we create a virtual 3D of the entire picture also, and maybe create shading, we create permit plan set, huge amount of AI that gets used. Basically, we are training GPUs, we are training lot of data to learn from that and implemented some of these models to create the products level. So product level across the board that we are using. But there are lot of other areas like predictive maintenance in a customer support area. Let's say, I I want to have the ability and which we are doing it proactively is can I predict this particular site will have this kind of a problem based on the past pattern of the data. So I can be proactive to go and tell that, okay, you may need this gateway change or you may need this microinverter change because of this particular reason of the past history that has happened. So that the ability to make sure that your system works continuously properly is a significant enhancement or so. And we are actively using these kinds of techniques or so. And there are lots and lots of operational efficiencies, basically, whether it's a document creation or creating a database for the bot that can adjust launch. We just launched inside of our enlightened bot that can answer lots and lots of questions about you. You can simply be asking any simple questions about your site, about your system, and it will immediately give you those kind of an answer because it's absorbing all the data, learning from it, and actually giving you a very intelligent answer, those kind of product enhancements. So we are absorbing it in open hands across the board, and whether it's a code productivity to all the way to service level productivity to product itself, performance productivity or an operational efficiency across the company in all the departments or so. So, and I'm presuming several other companies will be doing in that sense also. Herve (34:58) Fantastic. Jayant, Vice President of the Digital Business Unit at Enphase Energy. Thank you very much for being on the podcast. Jayant (35:04) Really appreciate. Thanks for inviting me. It was a great conversation and I know you very well for several years now. So this was a great conversation. Appreciate that. Herve (35:12) Thank you.