Leadership, Cash Flow, and Culture: Lessons from Blu Banyan’s CEO
About this episode
Jen Rippingale, CEO of Blu Banyan, dives into what it really takes to run a tight solar operation, from cash flow and culture to adapting when the market throws curveballs. She shares why she built on NetSuite, how to simplify software without sacrificing power, and the signs of a well-run solar company. If you care about leadership, resilience, and building systems that scale, Jen brings the goods in this episode.
Transcript
I will say that our business is stronger than it has ever been.
Hervé Billiet:The success of growth and where I see companies growing consistently really is your people.
Intro:I mean, the story is not does it make power? Because they all make power. The story is what does it power?
Hervé Billiet:This is what solar installers need to know with your host Herve Billie and Joe Marhamati. Hi there. It's Herve and Joe , with What Solar Installers Need to Know, where we interview solar CEOs and experts on how they run their business on the solar cluster. We ask their private revenue numbers. We give actionable advice and learn about trade secrets so you can run and grow your solar business.
Hervé Billiet:Joe and I built a solar company from 0 to 12,000,000 in sales and got successfully acquired. If you'd like to do the same or do better, go to sungo.com/blog to get actionable behind the scenes lessons on running and growing your solar business. And now without further ado, let's jump right into the next episode. Hi, everyone. I have the great pleasure of introducing Jan Ripengale, CEO of BlueBanion to you.
Hervé Billiet:How are doing?
Jan Rippingale:I'm doing great, Herve. I'm so glad to be here.
Hervé Billiet:So you've been running multiple businesses, but why don't you start with introducing your latest business, BlueBanyon?
Jan Rippingale:BlueBanyon is a software company that is focused on helping solar installers to deploy more solar faster. That's really our mission that we've been focused on, and we do that by helping project, putting project management and accounting on that same platform so that the we have a single source of truth, and we can get all of the efficiencies and benefits from having that single source of truth.
Hervé Billiet:And is that meant the the software that you you build on top of NetSuite, is that meant for, like, small installers, large installers, developers? Tell us more.
Jan Rippingale:It's actually meant for the whole scale for solar installers. So we start with the residential installers, and we can do projects en masse. At one point in time, our largest client was doing 6,500 resi projects a month. Remember 2022? That happened.
Jan Rippingale:And we also support EPCs with budgeting and more of the commercial projects that goes through that and then asset managers with their different fund structures, document management, o and m management, all of those pieces.
Hervé Billiet:And tell us, how did this got started, BlueBanion? How did the idea got started, and how did you launch the company?
Jan Rippingale:Well, this idea started it was a super personal story. It was right after my third child was born, which is, like, three weeks old, we were rocking in the chair, and I had a vision that she was really a changemaker, and she was going to go out into the world and combat cruelty wherever she found it. And it was absolutely noble. I totally adore and love and respect her, and I was terrified. So I knew that I needed to learn how to solve these bigger problems in order to be able to help her have skillful means so she wouldn't go combat cruelty and just stand in front of a fire in line and get shot down in an instant.
Jan Rippingale:So I needed to learn the skills to have those skillful means to actually make big changes. And I'd been working on solar for a long time, pretty much my entire you know, I'd been aware of solar since I was a kid because I was gonna be an astronaut, and solar was the only way to make that work. And so I got into that as my mechanism to learn how to be a person who had skillful means who could make big changes. And, wow, I've learned a lot. It's been an effective teacher.
Jan Rippingale:So I'm not as sure that I've been good at transmitting that to my daughter yet, but I have learned a lot about what it takes to actually make big changes.
Hervé Billiet:Software that you you develop with 24 people at Bluebanyan, it is built on top of NetSuite. Why NetSuite Bar and Oracle platform?
Jan Rippingale:There's a couple reasons for that. The main reason is that NetSuite is uniquely a development platform, So we're able to build on it anything that we would like like to. Salesforce also allows development, for instance, but it always has separate databases. So if you have different Salesforce tools, even though they're both on Salesforce, you have to sync between the different tools. And on NetSuite, that's not the case.
Jan Rippingale:They actually you've got access to that single source of truth, the real records. That makes a big difference on the development side when you're doing software. And then the other reason is that we wanted to focus on what it was that solar installers and solar owners needed, and that wasn't gonna happen by doing disaster recovery and all of these large scale hardware based infrastructure that you need to have. So and I did want to be able to support installers at scale. So we were running working with a client who was, you know, a 10 figure business, and they had a data problem where something got corrupted in their database despite all the backups and despite all the stuff on the NetSuite platform.
Jan Rippingale:And that was able to be identified and troubleshooted in, like, an hour and then fixed the next day. So terabytes of data were just, you know, switched, moved over, and in twelve hours of the problem identification, they had a completely different system and are able to move forward. It solved their problem, and it kept them functioning at scale. So that kind of infrastructure is awesome. I can't tell you how grateful I was that day that we had chosen the NetSuite platform to to move forward on.
Jan Rippingale:And we've had to work with some of the challenges. Right? Like, we've got a different front end and a whole lot of different screens. We're we're changing how the performance works. We're doing a lot of unique different things on top of that platform so that not everything looks like it was built in the nineties.
Jan Rippingale:So it's a journey. I mean, there's pros and cons with every choice, but we did wanna focus on delivering what solar installers needed more than focusing on that core infrastructure that is essential in an accounting system that is running the large scale businesses we would like all of our clients to be and become.
Hervé Billiet:I'd like to speak more about the the the software, but I first have another question about running a business. A lot of solar CEOs and and managers speak about a solar coaster, which I'd like to rephrase as a solar ladder where you've been more in control of of what's happening. And in general, the industry moves for moves up anyway. So I saw that you buckle up and you have zero impact. I think we have more impact than we than we think.
Hervé Billiet:But I'd like to speak about running small businesses. You are a serial entrepreneur, run multiple businesses. And can you explain or or rely on us about the similarities or the the differences between those businesses and and solar?
Jan Rippingale:So all businesses that I have run so far have had a couple things that work. Like, from a first principles point of view, you have to have, like, an authentic insight where you're actually delivering unique value to the market. So the core elements and foundations of that are the same across any business, and they're not easy to get. And so a lot of times we just focus on on whether or not we've got that product market message fit and all of the pieces. The reality is that we're like little fish.
Jan Rippingale:I'm a scuba diver. So I I see this as like you've got a coral reef, and we might be the biggest fish in our little piece of coral, and we know how everything's going down, and we're getting the parasites out, and we're, like, doing our job on our little piece of coral. And then there's a hurricane, and it just, like, swirls our switches everything around, and we get knocked up and knocked over just like anybody else. So there's, at the micro level, the skills and the disciplines and the what you do every day absolutely matters and accumulates in the way that you would expect. And not just just small businesses, but big businesses are also impacted by these bigger wins and the bigger trends.
Jan Rippingale:It's like no matter how big we get, we're gonna get knocked over. Think Kodak. Right? Like, they owned their world, and then they got slapped by Apple, which was not a competitor on their roadmap. Right, so at the time.
Jan Rippingale:So these kinds of changes happen to all of us, so it's not unique in that fashion. What I wish I were better at doing, and I've been thinking about more, is noticing when these big patterns are happening and how they're how they're changing things. One of the things that Bill Gates has as a discipline is that he always had twelve months of cash in the bank. And if you think of a twelve month burn in the bank, that's actually a lot of money that's just sitting there. It's not doing anything particular.
Jan Rippingale:I mean, maybe it's the money market fund or something's got something, but it's not doing much. And that seems like a huge, crazy war chest. And when you're doing something new and innovative, which is where I'm attracted to and most entrepreneurs are are interested in, that really having that kind of war chest gives you the ballast you need to weather the storms. And I am not meeting that level of discipline at this point in time with our company, but I admire and I appreciate it much better now than I did before. And so I'm noticing when I'm looking at the business advice that, you know, streams past us all the time, that I am looking for more of these first principles about what it takes to be strong enough to prepare while the sun is up.
Jan Rippingale:Like, when 2022, I wish I had put away a year's of cash. Right? That would have made a huge difference to how Blue Banyan weathered 2023 and 2024 and 2025. So so these elements, you know, I'm learning different pieces of this. So each time I go through and run another business, I'm getting better skills.
Jan Rippingale:What I'm looking at is changing, and what I'm prioritizing is changing. So I am looking to get more stable as this goes along. And in the end, we're never gonna have full control. That's never really gonna be the case. So, you know, Russia decides to drop a nuclear bomb and we're all looking at a completely different world.
Jan Rippingale:Right? So it's never gonna get to having more control, but I do like kind of developing the core. It's like if you're walking a tightrope, The skills that you would develop to have more balance are that you would be able to go up and down and be flexible that way, but you'd also just have your tight core so that you could adjust to however the wind buffeted you. And I I can see where my core isn't as strong as I would like it to be and and where my core is stood up. Like, we're still here.
Jan Rippingale:Right? So both of those elements are always gonna be in play, I think, for across any business on any industry. So one of the reasons that I think solar is interesting is because it's an energy business. So we are we kind of were ignored by the big big boys for a while on of the oil and gas guys, but you can tell that we're starting to actually make enough of an impact that they're they're pulling out some bigger punches. And it's actually a sign that we're stronger and more threatening and concerning to them than has ever been the case before.
Jan Rippingale:And we're not gonna win this with an Us and then them. Right? It's gonna end up that the energy companies move to the new technology altogether. That's gonna have to be the outcome eventually. But it's also a kind of a sign of respect that their legislative chops are I mean, they're still subsidized.
Jan Rippingale:Oil and gas is still subsidized by The United States Of America way more than solar is. And maybe solar is ready to not be subsidized and move forward. I think we're gonna find a way to do that. The energy at RE plus that just happened in September looks like that's gonna happen in that direction that I was surprised by that.
Hervé Billiet:I I was kind of ready kind of moving to an RE plus where people were kind of subdued, like, too many punches, and and yet I felt like it was a very positive vibe where, like, we can do this kind of mentality. So I was I'm I'm really energized after that one even more than before. But let's go back to what you mentioned about cash flow. At Sun Roy, we our KPI is six months of of of a burning rate to have on our bank account cash just sitting there, but it gives me at least capability of sleeping. If there is massive change, we can we can handle it.
Hervé Billiet:I remember what I had at Ipsen Solar, my PC business. I forget now, but I was way more old school or risk averse than my my cofounder, which is like, well, leave money just sitting there, you know, investing with zero ROI on it where I need that money on the bank account just sitting there because the storm will come. If it's not tomorrow, it's next week or next month or next year, at some point, you wanna be prepared for that storm. So we had that constant battle between the two of us. I more risk averse.
Hervé Billiet:I wanna be ready for storm. But then it's it's true. That money is still there doing absolutely nothing except give me peace of mind. But I know Bill Gates is twelve months. That's that's a lot.
Jan Rippingale:It it's a pretty intense it's a discipline. And, you know, I tend to be closer to where Joe is at, where I was like, it wasn't doing anything, so what what can we do with it? And I wish that I had been closer to where you were at. But would I have thought that if the market had gone differently? And so some of this is just pulling back to the disciplines and setting it as the rule.
Jan Rippingale:And this is gonna be the rule, and then we're we're done with that rule, and everything above that is what we can play with. Because we'll all adapt to whatever rule we have, but it is clear that I would like to have more ballast in in the boats that I'm building.
Hervé Billiet:So let's speak about our EPCs. We both have software meant to help our friends in the solar industry. And what do you hear currently about what the solar industry is going through and the different ways that people adapt their business. I like to say never let a crisis go to waste. I've said that so many times through Ipsen Solar and now, same thing.
Hervé Billiet:If there is a crisis, never let it go to waste. Make sure you pivot, adapt, get stronger out of it. So what do you see installers do? The people you're in contact with, how do they respond to prepare for next year?
Jan Rippingale:So I see three kinds of responses depending upon where they're at and what their skills are. And so, basically, when it's hard, you need to play to your strengths. Right? And some people are really strong at selling into the residential market, and they're people who are diversifying their business and their products that they're offering. So they're adding roofing and HVAC and hardscaping and all these different kind of residential businesses because what they're good at is talking to homeowners.
Jan Rippingale:And that's great. So they're they're diversifying in that way. There's another set that are more technical. They're, like, a little bit more like you maybe, Herve, that they're a little nerdier in their electrician shops, and they're moving up to do up in the size of what they're working on doing small commercial, medium sized commercial kind of businesses. And, we're helping them by teaching them how to do the budgeting and and keep their cash on track as you move into those larger projects.
Jan Rippingale:And then we've got some who are building these larger projects and just owning them. And so they're moving into kind of asset management, asset ownership of solar assets where, you know, they're developing community solar and running and and getting it funded and then getting their payback from the invoicing and off taker billing. And so that asset management developer world we're also supporting. So we've seen the three different styles of adjustments, and they have to do with the people's interest and their skills, the business's skills and strong suits. And then you're only gonna be doing the development and the asset management if you have those strong financial connections to make that work.
Jan Rippingale:But you've got the skills. Why not benefit from that? Right?
Hervé Billiet:So So you mentioned basically adapt with line of business, do more O and M, other you know, going to commercial. It's funny about commercial. I I wrote a lengthy, lengthy article about the difference between residential and commercial. And once you start analyzing it, it may be a solar project, but everything's actually different in commercial. So so be you don't wanna be in a gray zone doing a few commercial projects.
Hervé Billiet:If you're gonna do commercials, just go all in, like, the way like, just as structural streamline as residential. Just go one after the other after the other. Very, very structured. Because the voltage is different. The the way you sell it is different.
Hervé Billiet:It's b two c or b two b. The permitting is different. The timeline is different. The cash flow is different. So, basically, everything's different.
Hervé Billiet:So be be aware of that when going to the commercial space, but we've done it. It's totally possible. And and any other advice you you can give people about getting more to commercial?
Jan Rippingale:I think those are all really good points, by the way. And the main advice we have seen is that commercial hasn't handled or understood how the cash flow needs change and how a delay that may not be within your control really affects your cash flow. And so so have some ballast in the boat when you're making that change so that if things don't go the way you're expecting, which, you know, let's face it, it's something is not gonna go the way you want. So if that's the case, do make sure that you've got enough ballast in the boat to make it through that. So have
Hervé Billiet:that Yeah.
Jan Rippingale:I think the cash treasuries.
Hervé Billiet:Yep. The biggest danger with commercial is is is cash flow because things can happen that's outside of your control, and suddenly your cash flow is a problem. And interestingly enough, if you look at other large commercial projects, it's strange that in the soy industry, we would build our own balance sheet. And once everything is built, then we ask for money. Like, no.
Hervé Billiet:No. No. You've payment milestones that that that protects you from that that external factor. That's one of the most important pieces to negotiate milestone payments. Yes.
Hervé Billiet:And the rules. Right? What's considered what what what is a milestone? At which point is one complete? That is where I usually spend most of my time negotiating on.
Hervé Billiet:Because if that's not crystal clear, you take on so much risk. It's just so dangerous.
Jan Rippingale:Yes. Absolutely. Everything should be funded in advance, and then your profits coming at the end. But you should have enough money that your nothing is actually coming out of your balance sheet as you're negotiating these commercial projects.
Hervé Billiet:I wanna go back to to software. We both build software for installers. And big for me, my software at first was quite simple, and we're adding over the years more complexity. We also build for, like, large installers that need more advanced tools, so our entire platform becomes more complex. Means that onboarding takes a bit more time, like, right, a few clicks and a few meetings.
Hervé Billiet:So how are you helping installers help themselves? Because you know the software would do them good, but how do you grab their attention? Because they have a business to them, so it's difficult to grab that attention. So how did you achieve that?
Jan Rippingale:For us, it was a journey, and we kind of went the other way that we knew that people needed to have cloud based and kind of NetSuite based accounting and project management systems. And to build them custom was, like, a high $6.07 figure on you know, endeavor, and that people would choose to do when we started because the returns were so high. So we really brought that down in terms of the cost so that it would instead of being high 6 figures, it's actually mid 5 to low 6 figures depending upon how complex you wanna set it up to get started. And in that process, we've really added a whole lot of configuration. So it's much less kind of a blank canvas and much more of a, you know, fill in the lines.
Jan Rippingale:Now you just choose your colors, and it'll fill in the lines for you. Like, we've gone a lot down that chain to make it. We had the sophistication and the complexity out of the box initially, and we've been pulling we we still have all of that capabilities, but we've been pulling the configuration down so that it's lower and lower code, easier to configure, better colors that pop and show you what you need to do. So we've been going working down the chain the other direction in terms of how that started. So I don't know which way is better.
Jan Rippingale:I I don't think there is a better way about doing it, but we actually have had the journey the opposite direction where we're getting it so that it takes much less time to set up correctly and move forward. Our our implementations now are almost entirely training and data migration. So and we do almost all of the more complex configuration after people go live with the basics. And that that shift is different than it is in the NetSuite world. But we've the pros and cons of having a vertical like solar is that we know what solar installers generally need to get going, and then we can customize and make it special for them once they go live and they actually understand the new system well.
Jan Rippingale:And that shift has been really helpful. We've had to you know, it's not taking down our skills. Our skills are actually harder to do it this way, but we've needed to, just provide more guardrails as as people are getting started because we started with a very sophisticated platform that could do anything. And so focusing that energy towards a simpler vision has been our process to getting better successful folks. Yeah.
Hervé Billiet:But you do see you you have a front seat in what sole installers, how they run their business because you're in contact with management, plus you see all the data that they have. Obviously, we cannot do anything with that data. But do you have, like, maybe unwritten rules that you see what good sold installers keep doing? And when when you have a new client and they get onto your platform, platform, is there a way for you to sense, like, this is a well run company compared to this maybe a less run well run company? Do you have any any unwritten rules that says, like, what's this how do you know that a company is well run based on what you see?
Jan Rippingale:So for the for the most part, we actually look at milestone durations. How long Mhmm. Does it take to get from contract to install, and how long does it take to get from install to PTO? So contract to install, the only real external variable in there on the residential side at where you're doing a lot of these projects is the permitting. And that should stabilize for the area that you're in.
Jan Rippingale:And if it doesn't stabilize, that means that the processes internally aren't actually getting managed as well or as smoothly. And, you know, we've seen things where the designer was the prima donna of the company. Mhmm. And when they felt like doing their work, they would do their work, and there would be some good solid productivity. And if they didn't feel like it or they went on vacation, all of a sudden, everything is delayed by a week.
Jan Rippingale:And that shows up in the consistency of your contract to install milestones.
Hervé Billiet:But that that must be a small company. Right? Like, I knew at at Ipsol where we've made sure that there was stability so that if one person goes on holiday or gets sick or anything like that, that that the work can be done by another person so that you don't wanna have a bottleneck by having only one person capable of something. That includes asset management, that you cannot have one single person have access to a tool. And when they go on holiday, you cannot edit or change something.
Hervé Billiet:But that idea of making sure you're big enough that every work can be done by at least two people, I think that's, an essential part of of running good business.
Jan Rippingale:It is. And when you got the more sophisticated or technical skills, you will find that there are people who substantially outperform other people.
Hervé Billiet:Mhmm.
Jan Rippingale:And so so even when they had larger depending upon how they were set up and how they ran themselves internally, depending upon how many approvals they had to get done before something could move forward, if they ever learned to handle more complex systems or not larger systems, systems with two inverters, this is just one, there we consistently found that their single person bottlenecks don't actually really go away. What they do is if that you end up the happy path, the main path, the 80%, the 95%, that big main path can get smoothed out, and then the single person risk gets moved out to the exceptions, but it never goes away. Herve, you are irreplaceable, and that will continue to show up. And you can see it in
Hervé Billiet:different way. Say the opposite. I would I would say the opposite because when I was and still not at SunVoy too. There is a management team. I can go on holiday and everything keeps running.
Hervé Billiet:And so the the management call on Mondays at at at my EPC business was always led by somebody else. That way they feel part of the the the the conversation. They are leading a meeting, the management meeting, and that can take a holiday too. But, also, you engage everybody else, and you're not just the only one. Because when I was doing it every Monday, I was in a meeting.
Hervé Billiet:I was the one in charge, kind of like a dictator. And when you're leading a meeting, you have more decision power. You can address certain things or go back or or get a a vote on a decision based on something that that you care about or not address something you don't wanna talk about. So leading that meeting is an important piece. As a CEO, you keep doing it yourself.
Hervé Billiet:I think you you're not giving enough credit to your team. That's perfect capable of doing it too. So So so I I I
Jan Rippingale:I think it's a both end. Right? Like, that is an excellent tip for how to get out of running the main meetings and owning everything as a CEO. And that is it is excellent, and that is going to work. And at some point in time, we have this idea that as you scale, who you are doesn't matter anymore, or who the individuals are doesn't really make a difference because it won't balance out over the team on average and culture and whatever.
Jan Rippingale:That is true to a certain extent with your basic processes. And who the people are really matters still.
Hervé Billiet:True. True.
Jan Rippingale:So it's I'm currently playing with with exactly what is scalable and what isn't scalable, where the 95%, you know, the contributors really are the people who carry the bulk of the weight and what we really need to do to support them better to be able to do that kind of work. And so it's funny because we've been so much about scale and how to scale and and do that that that I'm actually kind of shifting back to this place where I am really noticing the folks who over contribute, you know, contribute, punch beyond above their weight, and really what are they doing, and then how do we empower them to do that more and better. So I'm I'm actually kind of shifting to this other frame of mind and thinking than I have been all of these other years. So so you're absolutely right that you should have repeatable patterns. And and I guess it's probably part of the AI thing, but I'm coming to value people who have insight about what makes something high quality and really excellent in a way that I haven't historically valued because I was going for repeatable and defined processes rather than optimized processes.
Hervé Billiet:That's Interesting.
Jan Rippingale:Yeah. So I'm actually kind of shifting my value chain and thought process so that I can get a better prompt because they can say, this is the pattern that they're doing wrong that they you flick your wrist differently. You'll get this different factor. Whatever it is, those little those little mastery moments, I mean, the people who understand and have that level of mastery are where I'm focusing in on right now. So it's probably yet another pendulum swing, but it's it is interesting that my head is shifting that direction right.
Hervé Billiet:No. I I think I think you're right. And and let me rephrase that. I think in the early days of of running a company, your role as CEO is to delete your own job. Everything you can have other people do, delegate, and so on.
Hervé Billiet:But you're right. Like, the company still is a reflection of your own mentality and need to give a direction. For example, when I was in Ipsen, there was never a project that we installed without a permit, which, you know, you couldn't go do. We can like, you're running late or you don't have a project for the next day or something in the early days, you could go out. And it's like, no.
Hervé Billiet:We're not we're not gonna start that game because it's a series of like, no. We're not gonna do it. Not on my watch. So you you do set a culture of following rules and processes, but you're right. I think maybe the replaceable part is, like, when in operational, like, in the pure running operational part of business, but you're right that there is a sense of culture that you instill in a company that that's important and makes things hopefully some more energetic and and yeah.
Jan Rippingale:Yeah. It affects the quality. So I mean and all things in their time and in balance. Right?
Hervé Billiet:Well, I really, really wanna thank you for being part of what soy installers need to know. Thank you very much.
Jan Rippingale:Thank you. This has been great to be here. It's always fun, Herve. I never know what's going to emerge. Thank you.
Jan Rippingale:Thank you.
Hervé Billiet:If you'd like to do the same or do better, go to sunvoy.com/blog and get actionable behind the scenes lessons on running and growing your solo business.